knarfeng said:
Ach, I was going too fast. You are correct on the tolerance of course. But still, even with a tolerance of ± 0.2% for the Chinese and ±0.15% for 440C, the 9Cr13MoV is at the low half of the 440C spec for carbon content.
alloy__________carbon range
440C________0.95% to 1.2%
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9Cr13MoV____0.7% to 1.1%
They still are not equivalent.
I know that the Chinese do not use the term 440C, but my original point was that sometimes you see Chinese-made knives labelled 440C when they aren't really 440C. And the performance of the steel is not the same as 440C. People use these, think that they are using actual 440C, and think that 440C performs like the knife they are using, when actual 440C is better than that.
So, back to my original point. If the Bokers in question are made in mainland China, there is a question as to whether the steel is really 440C or if it is a Chinese steel with somewhat lower properties.
Best,
Frank R
Click to expand...
Hi, ok thought I'd put my 10c in here. The biggest problem with stuff coming out of China, no matter who the manufacturers is, ie Boker, etc etc. is that US and European manufacturers think they get great deals with low labour costs etc for making their knives on the cheap but then still selling high (compared to what they actually paid for them) back in the respective countries. The Chinese are not that stupid either so to save costs for them and keep their profits up shortcuts can be taken on all fronts of manufacture particularly QC. Laser engravers and skilled programmers abound there so any label can be placed onto a blade. In fact I have some Boker counterfeits that are actually very very well made and the knife steel whatever it really is (I'm yet to cut it up for a proper metallurgical analysis probably quantitative XRF) really takes an edge and holds it. The knife construction is great but it's a fake. Once any product gets into the Chinese market then product confidentiality no longer exists as far as the rest of the world understands this.
Just look at all the FOX Knives fakes and BTW the Blackfox label from FOX is their Chinese made line. FOX decide to get some knives made there and lo and behold Chinese factories start churning out the copies with inferior steel or at least not N690. Has anyone ever thought about where the fakes originate from????
Schrade make a lot of their knives there too and they too lack QC blunt out of the box but cheap!
Ok I'm digressing here.
I have a friend (not Chinese BTW) who is working to resolve issues between German and Chinese co workers over these very issues. So I've forgotten now but the guy who said the Chinese don't follow the rest of the worlds standards for steel alloy comp/names is more than likely correct.
The only way to have greater confidence (if you lack it re this thread) is to buy the German made Boker. Until such times the words "Made in China" are synonymous with "quality product" (in regards to knives) then this will always be the case. I also do not want to say there are no good products coming out of China either there are of course.
So in a roundabout way if you distrust your Chinese made Boker as to whether it is made from 440C as labeled then you will distrust any Chinese made knife from a foreign manufacturer there. A lot of the Boker Plus line are very badly made (especially the folders) and the QC is appalling, you get what you pay for. Sorry for being a bit off base re the subject of alloys and designations but I figured the above plays a role too in this argument.
Oh and BTW I've got some of that Chinese blood circulating through my veins, just in case anyone accuses me of being a "manufacturing racist" LOL.
Hi, ok thought I'd put my 10c in here. The biggest problem with stuff coming out of China, no matter who the manufacturers is, ie Boker, etc etc. is that US and European manufacturers think they get great deals with low labour costs etc for making their knives on the cheap but then still selling high (compared to what they actually paid for them) back in the respective countries. The Chinese are not that stupid either so to save costs for them and keep their profits up shortcuts can be taken on all fronts of manufacture particularly QC. Laser engravers and skilled programmers abound there so any label can be placed onto a blade. In fact I have some Boker counterfeits that are actually very very well made and the knife steel whatever it really is (I'm yet to cut it up for a proper metallurgical analysis probably quantitative XRF) really takes an edge and holds it. The knife construction is great but it's a fake. Once any product gets into the Chinese market then product confidentiality no longer exists as far as the rest of the world understands this.Just look at all the FOX Knives fakes and BTW the Blackfox label from FOX is their Chinese made line. FOX decide to get some knives made there and lo and behold Chinese factories start churning out the copies with inferior steel or at least not N690. Has anyone ever thought about where the fakes originate from????Schrade make a lot of their knives there too and they too lack QC blunt out of the box but cheap!Ok I'm digressing here.I have a friend (not Chinese BTW) who is working to resolve issues between German and Chinese co workers over these very issues. So I've forgotten now but the guy who said the Chinese don't follow the rest of the worlds standards for steel alloy comp/names is more than likely correct.The only way to have greater confidence (if you lack it re this thread) is to buy the German made Boker. Until such times the words "Made in China" are synonymous with "quality product" (in regards to knives) then this will always be the case. I also do not want to say there are no good products coming out of China either there are of course.So in a roundabout way if you distrust your Chinese made Boker as to whether it is made from 440C as labeled then you will distrust any Chinese made knife from a foreign manufacturer there. A lot of the Boker Plus line are very badly made (especially the folders) and the QC is appalling, you get what you pay for. Sorry for being a bit off base re the subject of alloys and designations but I figured the above plays a role too in this argument.Oh and BTW I've got some of that Chinese blood circulating through my veins, just in case anyone accuses me of being a "manufacturing racist" LOL.
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